Iconic Changemakers

In this episode of Best Behaviour, Gabe, Georgia and Jess each select an iconic change maker who inspires them, and unpack the bold moves that made these individuals true agents of change. 

Georgia dives into the story of Patagonia founder Yvon Chouinard, Jess champions ultramarathon runner and motivational speaker, Nedd Brockmann, And Gabe takes choses country music legend and creative philanthropist, Dolly Parton.

Of course, it wouldn’t be Best Behaviour without a creative twist. The trio channel their inner publicists in the second half of the episode, pitching their changemakers like PR pros, and tackling a few unexpected questions.

Best Behaviour podcast is recorded on Wurundjeri land, Interchange acknowledges that this always was, and always will be Aboriginal land.

For more information about Interchange and the work that we do, check out our website, or connect with us on LinkedIn.

Transcript

S3E3 Iconic Changemakers

[00:00:00] Gabrielle Harris: Hello, and welcome back to the next episode of Best Behavior. I am here today with the lovely Jess Thuring. Hello, Jess. 

[00:00:16] Jess Thuring: Hello, Gabrielle. 

[00:00:18] Gabrielle Harris: Welcome back. 

[00:00:18] Jess Thuring: Thank you. Thank you. 

[00:00:19] Gabrielle Harris: You been 

on the mics before? 

[00:00:20] Jess Thuring: Yes. 

[00:00:22] Gabrielle Harris: And we're also joined by Georgia Marasco. Hello, Georgia. 

[00:00:27] Georgia Marasco: Hi Gabe. Hi Jess. 

[00:00:28] Jess Thuring: Hi, Georgia. 

[00:00:29] Georgia Marasco: So excited to be here with you both.

[00:00:34] Gabrielle Harris: I'm pretty excited because today is a conversation about iconic change makers. So the task that was put upon us was to come into this room unbeknownst to one another and select an iconic change maker. And then have a discussion about why we feel super inspired by the chosen individual and what it is about them that we think is strongly connected to change making.

So I'm looking forward to having a chat, ladies. 

[00:01:07] Georgia Marasco: Mm-hmm. Me too. 

[00:01:08] Gabrielle Harris: All right. Let's start with you, Jess. Tell me about who is your change maker? Gimme a bit of a brief explanation of their story. 

[00:01:16] Jess Thuring: Yes, so my change maker is Nedd Brockman, the iconic blonde mullet runner who ran from Perth to Sydney in 2022, and he.

Set out running around a hundred kilometers a day for 46 and a half days. Um, all in the hopes of raising money for homelessness. So he was from a small town called Forbes and then moved to Sydney and he was just shocked by the amount of homelessness that was there. And he is just comes from the belief that in Australia, no one should be going without a home or a bed to sleep in every night.

Um, so he wanted to do something big and bold and challenge himself, so. Yeah. He started off with the challenge of doing 50 marathons in 50 days, and he was able to raise just under a hundred thousand dollars for Red Cross. 

[00:02:07] Gabrielle Harris: Can you imagine the damage on your body? 

[00:02:10] Jess Thuring: Oh, at one stage he had maggots crawling out of his toes.

Yeah. What? Yeah, his toenails fell off and he had maggots coming through. Yeah. Yeah, the injury list is just insane as well, like what he put his body through, but all for a good cause. But yeah, I think he is just a real Aussie icon. He was just this normal Aussie bloke who was 21, never really ran before, and he just was passionate about a good cause and he actually went out and did it and did the unthinkable and just inspired so many people, young and old to.

Get out and do something that challenges yourself every single day, um, and proves what you can achieve if you really set your mind to it. So I think it's pretty inspirational. He literally put his body to the max and. Achieved so much and he set out with the goal of just getting, um, $1 million. Mm-hmm.

For we are mobilized, which raised money for homelessness in Australia, and he ended up getting 2.5 million just from the run. So it's pretty incredible. 

[00:03:13] Gabrielle Harris: You got to love somebody that actually just goes and does something about the challenges that they see, rather than just sit around talking about it.

But you could have chosen anyone. Under the sun, you had no brief other than to come up with an iconic change maker that you felt passionately about. Why this particular person? What was it about them that you, and that stands out to me above all the rest, 

[00:03:37] Jess Thuring: I think just how real and authentic Nedd is. So every day he would be on his Instagram Live and stories, just showing his whole journey.

And he wasn't afraid of being vulnerable and sharing how he was actually going. He didn't mask anything. He'd be one moment singing and all happy, and then in tears screaming. The next moment. And he just captured it all and really took Australia along with him. And I think that takes a lot of, I don't know, vulnerability to be able to share that with people.

And I think he's just inspiring. And he's just an Aussie icon, really, just this country boy. He used to be a tradie and he is just shown that anyone can do it. Really. 

[00:04:20] Gabrielle Harris: And how about you, Georgia, when that, um. Opportunity was posed to you of coming and getting on the mics and talking about an iconic change maker.

What came to mind for you and why? 

[00:04:32] Georgia Marasco: For context, we have been watching a lot of climbing documentaries lately, so a lot of solo climbing documentaries, and it's just been so fascinating to me the mental strength of it and also the physical strength, like. Being able to hold your whole body weight in your fingertips while you're climbing the steepest face of a rock with no support, nothing.

It's insane. So when I was asked about a change maker, I automatically thought of the founder of Patagonia, uh, of Yvon Chouinard. So he started climbing back in the 1960s, I think. Um, well that was his first time gonna Patagonia to climb. And he fell in love with it. He was with a couple other climbers who started their own brands as well.

Yvon was actually friends with the people who created Esprit, essentially, and they were both entrepreneurs, but the founder of Esprit was really on the mindset of creating a company that was gonna be huge and bring in a lot of money, whereas. Yvon was more around creating a company that was very, like environmentally focused and giving back to a cause that was really important to him.

So he kind of started as a blacksmith, um, to create climbing equipment that wasn't so damaging to the rock faces that they were climbing on. And then eventually he got into making clothing, which turned into the Patagonia brand that we know today. So creating clothing from sustainably sourced, uh, materials.

Making sure that his workplace culture was incredible. He focused so much on the wellbeing of employees and still to this day has a book called Let's Go Surfing, and it was kind of written based on the work ethos that he had back in the day of, you know, if the surf's good, you go surfing when you need to work, you work, but you focus everything around kind of what makes you happy and what's actually bringing you joy in life, which is quite different to.

His friend who was the founder of Esprit, just very different business models. And then down the line, the most recent sort of thing that has bought Patagonia into the news is the selling of his company. So a huge way that he gave back was splitting it into two trusts. One, to ensure that it was run by the values that he'd set it up to start with.

And then the other one to ensure that every bit of profit. After, you know, costs and losses was actually given back to the environment and made sure that it was going towards conservation. And yeah, he's fully stepped out of the company and all the profit and made sure that it's a fully purpose driven company.

[00:07:10] Gabrielle Harris: So Yvon is this amazing change maker who established the organization by really tapping into something that A, he loved, and B, he felt passionate about. It has done incredibly well. It's now reached a place where it has, um, been sold off into two trusts. So what is it about what Yvon continues to do now that makes you think of him as an exceptional change maker?

[00:07:38] Georgia Marasco: I think just his willingness to be so selfless in what he's doing. He's not making any profit from the company anymore, and to just fully be able to, from the start, understand what he's passionate about, where his purpose lies, and remain that. Through the decades that the company's been going for. I think that's huge and a lot of people can get caught up in, you know, when it's a billion dollar business, it's easy to get caught up in how much you're making for yourself and where that money is going.

But to be able to remain purpose focused, I think is very inspiring. That's great. 

[00:08:11] Jess Thuring: Okay, Gabe, tell us about your change maker that you chose. 

[00:08:14] Gabrielle Harris: I'm going with Dolly Parton. I love a bit of Dolly and I think for me it's probably something that I grew up with. I used to listen to Jolene when I was a kid and we didn't have many records in our house, but we did have one Dolly record and uh, I used to love dancing to Dolly in the lounge room and I didn't really know much about her other than.

The songs that I enjoyed. But then as I've got older and I keep seeing her appear, she's become like this fascinating icon for me. I just love the way that she uses creativity to create change. And it's not just her music. I mean, her music is incredible, but she came from nothing. She had to kind of fight her way and, you know, hustle her way to.

To get attention. She used her femininity to do that, but at the same time, she recognized what she was doing and she managed to be incredibly successful in a very male dominated industry, in a male dominated decision making. World where all of the money sits with men. Since she managed to get into the spotlight, she has used that for incredible means.

So she's a, you know, if you don't know how much work Dolly does in philanthropy, it's really quite outstanding. She built this organization where she posts books out to children between zero and five years old to get them fascinated in. Literacy and storytelling and creativity, and I think that that is such a powerful way to drive change.

But she does these other things. Like for example, I've never even heard of this until recently. Have you ever heard of Dolly World? Mm-hmm. No. It's like this enormous theme park in. The town that she originated from, which everybody leaves this town in Tennessee to get work. And she had to do that. So then she went, well, maybe I could build a theme park in this diminishing population so that I can drive jobs and drive the economy, uh, and link it back to the brand that I've been able to create.

And through that, she earns all of I, I guess, these royalty. Checks that then she reinvests from a philanthropic perspective. And I think that's super cool. Boss work. 

[00:10:36] Jess Thuring: Mm, that's awesome. Are you gonna make Gabe's world? 

[00:10:41] Gabrielle Harris: Absolutely. And do you know the Whitney Houston song? I'll Always Love You. Mm-hmm. That's hers.

[00:10:46] Georgia Marasco: Oh. 

[00:10:47] Gabrielle Harris: And, um, Elvis Presley tried to do it to take that song, but demanded all of the publishing rights, and so she said no to that so that she retained her royalties. Then Whitney Houston said that she wanted to do it, but Dolly could retain the writing royalties and she made millions off it and still is today because.

Whitney Houston agreed that she would sing it, but she would get the royalties for any of the singing side of things. They're two different types of royalties, whereas Dolly kept it for the songwriting side of things. She's always used her creativity. She never shied away from being who she was. She had to fight her way to the top.

There was one comment that she made once about, and I'll probably misquote her, but you know, like I don't care about the things that people say about blondes. Because I know it's not true, and I know I'm not blonde.

Like you're so funny. She's the best. Anyway. From an iconic change maker perspective, I don't think they get much better than Dolly. Here's my question for you, Jess. When you think about Nedd and the incredible. Feet

and managing to get from Perth all the way across Australia. Yeah. Um, how do you, how do you connect that to the work that you do now when you think about all of your work in organizational change and, um, and strategy and how you connect? Strategy to culture? What comes up for you when you think about what he's been able to achieve and what is that connection that you can see?

[00:12:29] Jess Thuring: Yeah, I think firstly is just how purpose-driven Nedd is. Like he set out with the purpose of raising money and raising awareness for homelessness, and he just actually got out of bed and did that, and actually took action. And I think that aligns with a lot of the work we do in trying to. Define and align the purpose for these organizations.

And then building the beliefs, mindsets, behaviors around that of their people. So there's that purpose piece, but then also the mindset piece around change. So yes, he wanted to run this huge distance, but he broke it down into little steps every day and was doing say 80 to a hundred kilometres. And I think that's kind of similar as well, when.

We work with these companies that want to go through large transformations or periods of growth. And yes, we can take them on that journey, but we break it down into smaller, manageable phases and steps to help them achieve their end goal. So I think there's parallels to that as well. 

[00:13:34] Gabrielle Harris: So they don't get maggots on their toes.

[00:13:36] Jess Thuring: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 

[00:13:39] Gabrielle Harris: So, gee, how about for you with Yvon? What is it that comes up for you about the values that he. Embodied. You mentioned some of that earlier, this desire to give back and being a very full purpose orientation, but what are the other values that connect for you when you think about the values that I guess we try and embody here to support other organizations move through change?

[00:14:06] Georgia Marasco: Hmm. That's a good question. His purpose was one thing, his external purpose, I guess. But internally, his people focus. Was probably one of the biggest alignments with the work we do. So a lot of the time people will come in and wanna do a change process and they're like, okay, we need to do this restructure, or, yeah, I don't know, defining all the roles differently or looking at the systems and moving to a different one, something that's so technically involved.

And then that's that they don't include the people journey along with it and. The behaviors and the uncertainty that everyone goes through and the feelings that are really a rollercoaster through change. Uh, and I think that's something Yvon does so well, is from the get go, it's thinking about, well, where do people's wellbeing lie?

It lies in being able to go surfing, for example, or being able to take that time away for the things that bring you joy. Uh, and I think that's. What we establish for our change is making those little points for joy and happiness and with our creativity, being able to bring people together on a journey that's, you know, wacky at times, but really it's just light-hearted and it's trying to keep that personable part to it.

When you think about your experience as a female who created her own business, uh, during peak male influence over businesses. What are the key kind of inspirations you've taken from Dolly's Path, whether it's around the creativity or the sort of challenges that you've had to overcome in being a female leader and founder?

[00:15:41] Gabrielle Harris: Hmm. Good question. Well, one of the things that inspires me the most about Dolly is that she is always unapologetically herself, and she recognized the system that she was entering. She needed to work that system. To get ahead, to be noticed, to be able to create a profile and a brand for herself. And some of the things that she did, I feel like I have in some way tried to, to emulate either consciously or unconsciously, maybe more unconsciously than consciously, but, um.

There is a piece of really being vocal and proud of just being who you are without trying to fit the system. But there's another side of it, which is how do you find a way to, for the system to perceive that you are trying to fit it so that you can create change and move it. And there's so many different examples of that.

Like I just think about dressing and what is expected of you. And now Dolly went like quite extreme with her. Incredible sparkles and making sure that she was recognized to be this very feminine blonde figure that fits a social norm. In the corporate world, there is a, there's a code. There is a code of what executive women wear, and whether that is aligned to your personality or not, there's a component of that where you.

You do, you show up dressed in your Scanlan Theodore suits and your stiletto, high heels and fully made up, and your hair all done. And when you do show up like that, the system accepts you for the way that they understand women in, in the roles that they take on. And you have to do enough of that in order to carve out your space and be recognized so that you can be more unapologetically yourself.

But there's lots of different examples of that. Yes, it is still a very male dominated business world. Having really incredible and strong supporters around you definitely helps, and people that tell you that you can, and it is possible and what you're trying to do has meaning and purpose. So keep pushing, keep going, but it can be difficult as well at times.

Again, either explicitly or implicitly, you do get subtle messages about your role and your place and you have to work with it to be able to overcome it. 

[00:18:13] Georgia Marasco: Any sparkles in the boardroom yet? 

[00:18:17] Gabrielle Harris: So I have some questions for you. Uh, and what I would love you to. Consider, I want you to pretend that you are the PR person or the representative of your chosen change maker, and you need to answer these questions.

I must get an answer. You can't defer, you cannot use a tactic of, I will get back to you on that. Uh, I'll write you a press release, et cetera. You need to answer the question. If you don't know, make it up. That's what most good PR people do. Jess, if your changemaker could meet themselves five years ago, what would be the first difference that they'd 

notice?

[00:18:58] Jess Thuring: I think the first difference they would notice for sure would be the iconic blonde mullet, which I think he only adopted when he started creating the brand of Nedd Brockman, 

[00:19:11] Gabrielle Harris: Georgia. In terms of Yvon - favourite romcom. 

[00:19:17] Jess Thuring: Could do. Notting Hill. It's got a hill in it 

and he likes climbing. 

[00:19:22] Gabrielle Harris: Okay, that one goes to Jess. I'm gonna give you a different one. Okay. I'm really looking forward to this answer. 

[00:19:30] Gabrielle Harris: Tell me about Yvon's favourite Travel destination 

[00:19:34] Georgia Marasco: Yosemite, for sure. 

[00:19:37] Gabrielle Harris: And what did you use to think? Yosemite was called? 

[00:19:40] Georgia Marasco: Yosemite. 

Mm-hmm. 

And on his travel journeys. He would love a piece of toast with butter and Vegemite.

[00:19:53] Gabrielle Harris: Uh, okay. Jess, what kind of role do you reckon that Nedd plays in his friendship group? 

[00:20:01] Jess Thuring: I reckon the, the joker for sure. I feel like he's just a bit of a larrikin, always be making people smile and laugh. 

[00:20:13] Georgia Marasco: Which cartoon character is Dolly's biggest inspiration? 

[00:20:18] Gabrielle Harris: Yosemite Sam .Dolly's biggest inspiration. I'm gonna say it's Mini Mouse.

You know, she's got the look. She's got the vibe. It has to be Mini Mouse because she went and created Dolly World. 

[00:20:36] Georgia Marasco: True. 

[00:20:37] Gabrielle Harris: And she wanted to bring a whole lot of femininity to Dolly World. 

[00:20:42] Jess Thuring: Which Dolly song would be the soundtrack for your life? 

[00:20:44] Georgia Marasco: Mm, 

[00:20:46] Gabrielle Harris: Working nine to 5, 

[00:20:47] Jess Thuring: 8 

30 to five 30. But 

yeah. 

[00:20:50] Gabrielle Harris: Jess Nedd. What's his favourite household chore?

[00:20:55] Jess Thuring: Ooh, I can say running the dishwasher. 

[00:21:00] Gabrielle Harris: What's a Yvon's favourite household chore? 

[00:21:04] Georgia Marasco: Polishing the wood tables. 

[00:21:07] Gabrielle Harris: Why? 

[00:21:09] Georgia Marasco: Just seems eco-friendly. 

[00:21:13] Jess Thuring: What would be Dolly's favourite household chore? 

[00:21:16] Gabrielle Harris: I don't know what Dolly, I feel like vacuuming. 'cause I could see Dolly would like sort of boogie it out and sing away. Whilst vacuuming.

Vacuuming has gotta be the most wholesome, enjoyable of all the chores, doesn't it? Yeah, like there's no kind of. Dirty component associated with it. 

[00:21:33] Georgia Marasco: Mm. 

[00:21:33] Gabrielle Harris: And when you finished, it's cleaner. Like it's visibly better than when he started. When Yvon was at high school, what was his favorite subject and why?

[00:21:44] Georgia Marasco: Probably history. 

[00:21:46] Gabrielle Harris: And who was his crew? Like what group did he sit with at lunchtime, 

[00:21:50] Georgia Marasco: He would 100% be the surfy people, the outdoorsy people. You know, in school, everyone had. There were like tears, not tears, but definitely subgroups. And there was always an outdoorsy, climby, hiking kind of group. 

[00:22:06] Gabrielle Harris: Jess, tell us about, um, Nedd and what time he sets the alarm for on Saturday morning.

[00:22:12] Jess Thuring: God, I think he would have PTSD from the running and just have nightmares and still wake up at like 4:00 AM 

[00:22:19] Georgia Marasco: That's terrible. 

[00:22:19] Gabrielle Harris: That's 

really scary. 

I mean, the toll that he would've put on his body. It is extraordinary. I mean, it's so extraordinary to go, this cause is worth fighting for like this, and I'm gonna put myself at risk to get the spotlight on the need for funding and support in this space.

But imagine the damage. I just don't know that. 

[00:22:44] Jess Thuring: I know it's unfathomable and he did it twice. 

He did it again two years later.

[00:22:48] Gabrielle Harris: I bet you he doesn't wanna run to the bus though. Like, if it's about to pull away, be like, I'm not 

running. 

[00:22:54] Georgia Marasco: What is Dolly Parton's favourite internet trend? Think TikTok, think reels.

[00:23:01] Gabrielle Harris: Like what are the types of reels that she's looking at? 

[00:23:04] Georgia Marasco: Yeah. 

[00:23:05] Gabrielle Harris: I'm gonna go with like, um, hair braiding. I think she'd also be on like, so she's been in one of the longest term marriages in Hollywood because. She, I can't remember her husband's name. I feel like it's like Carl or something, but he was, he's her business partner.

They run the business side of things together. He's never in the spotlight. Like he's never public, so she stays public, he stays private, and that's how they've made their relationship work. So I reckon she's also watching reels on, um, relationship improvement, like, I don't know, marriage counselling reels.

[00:23:47] Georgia Marasco: Mm. 

[00:23:48] Gabrielle Harris: So in summary, it has been amazing to sit down with you both and hear about the inspirational change makers that rock your world. Both Yvon and Nedd have been incredible change makers in their own right, and, um, I think share some really powerful stories about. What it means to stand for something and to have a really strong, clear purpose and direction and be able to get others to come on board with the vision that they have.

Uh, and I think for Dolly, I mean, she's just the boss. She's incredible, has been able to take everything from. I guess her own intrinsic desire to do good in the world, to bring creativity into ways of driving change. And I just think that that is sexy as all hell and she is amazing. So it has been great to sit down and chat with you both about these people.

Um, there's so many more that we could cover off, but as our love. In the work that we do is about driving change. It has been great to think about that in a more divergent way around who are those change makers that continue to push forward and do things outside the box? So to appreciate everybody listening to another episode of Best Behaviour, we look forward to catching up with you soon.

Bye 

[00:25:10] Jess Thuring: Bye. 

[00:25:11] Georgia Marasco: See you soon.

[00:25:14] Sophie: Thanks for listening to this episode of Best Behaviour. If you'd like the Interchange team to brainstorm a solution to your workplace woes, or you just want to ask a question or leave a comment, please get in touch via our socials or email podcast@interchange.com au. Best Behaviour is recorded at our Interchange offices.

On Wurundjeri land Interchange acknowledges that this land was and always will be Aboriginal land.